Prayer
Feb 4, 2009 Print This Post
This weekend at Riv I am teaching on prayer and today I am bunkering away doing message prep. I also have limited time this week due my computer being on the fritz again and having to plan a funeral.
What does that mean for you?
I am tagging you all as my research team! (The pay is wonderful: my undying gratitude.)
All I need is the answer to any or all of these questions:
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer.
Tags: prayer
February 4th, 2009 at 10:49 am
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
Outside of praying over meals, at least once or twice a day of situational / response to requests type of prayer.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
It kinda wierds me out. I feel like I’m just talking inside my head, and yet I have “seen” responses to these prayers. Interesting praying feels mentally just like debating myself before doing something stupid.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Waxing poetic without truly feeling or meaning a word of it.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Asking for material wants like God is Santa Claus. Or simply praying the same canned prayer over and over with no thought in it.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer.
Is it worth praying for leading, considering God will use you to the extent of your willingness anyway no matter where you are?
February 4th, 2009 at 11:24 am
The church I attended as a kid got a very strongly Calvinist pastor when I was in high school (very long story there). He basically believed that humans don’t have free will at all. One of the things I remember him saying was that he was struggling with understanding the purpose of prayer–that if God already knows our needs (and, for that matter, has ordained what we’re going to ask for), why bother asking for it at all? We’d get it either way.
Of course, on the other extreme are the Charismatics who believe that you’re not saved if you don’t speak in tongues. So there you have it: under- and over-spiritualization from someone who has some minor scars from denominational backlash.
February 4th, 2009 at 11:28 am
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
I don’t just pray to “pray”. I seek to know God deeper and be a tool He can use in reaching others. Sometimes it means tough love. Sometimes it means I sit and wait as He uses others to answer the prayer. Sometimes I get to be in on the process. My ultimate is to understand Him better, feel His joy, His pain. It gets overwhelming at times.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
I see where some see God as a gin to give them whatever they want. They don’t go to Him without a request. I like to go and admire and soak up the Beauty. Intercessory prayer is vital to our very existance, don’t get me wrong. I wrote about an instance in your wall. Without prayer warriors, we lose. I want to be a real prayer warrior, but I feel I don’t pursue it as often as I could. I have seen real warriors and the results from them praying, awesome! We need more like that.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Flowery, showy, in front of an audience, holding God to His “pomises”…..
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
I’ve heard this; “have you tried x? Have you done z? Is there anything you can think of you need to do to fix this? Well then, I guess all you can do is pray.”
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer.
“Pray” is an Olde English word that basically means “request” “ask”. Having thrown out cultural nuances as an immigrant, I can do that with old thoughts and semantics and tap into what is more currently active in today’s culture. I see prayer as being simply talking with God. Not at Him. It is a give and take action. Not He gives and we take, but a two way street. As I sit and visit with Him, thoughts and impressions flow with scriptures I know, current situations, feelings of the heart. The conscience is a gift from God, and I hope to find all the ways I’ve seared it, so that I can get in line with Him better. His Spirit works through scripture, circumstances, conscience and desires to help us be more like Christ which is the the ultimate goal for eternity. Prayer is our lifeforce, the greatest app available to us in our walk of faith with Christ through life.
February 4th, 2009 at 11:54 am
2) Prayer is how we get God to do what we want God to do.
Often, we treat prayer like currency. We pay God with prayer for favors and benefits we expect in return.
I have come to believe that prayer is more about conforming our will to God’s and transforming us than anything else, because I can’t accept that God needs us to pray to accomplish his will.
At best, I think, prayer can be described as the medium through which God chooses to be involved with us human beings; but, I have a very difficult time accepting that God needs us to pray to act in our lives or the lives of others. I think we are simply too frail and neglect prayer for too often for that to be the case.
3) Praying like the Pharisees that Jesus rips apart. E.g., praying to impress other people; praying to project that you are a ‘good Christian’
Also, praying for the sake being a good Christian. I.e., if I don’t pray every single day for an hour a day, I won’t be able to grow in my spiritual life.
4) I only pray in a crisis, when I really need God to act on my behalf.
5) Prayer is hard for me, at times, because I don’t always know what the purpose of prayer is. As I mentioned earlier: does prayer change what God does, or does it change us? I lean toward the latter, so when I pray, I often find it difficult to make my own petitions known — honestly, because I sometimes feel like that’s futile. I have no idea what is best for my life, so my prayer usually concludes with something like, “Not my will…”
As a tangent, I stumbled upon an interesting poster online a few months back that hit me pretty hard: http://fivebeforechaos.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/prayer_motivational.jpg
Too often, I think, we pray as a way of easing our conscience. Instead of actually taking action to help others when crisis hits, we say a prayer and wash our hands of the situation. If prayer is the way that God chooses to work in the world, then that belief must be paired with the notion that we are Christ’s hands and feet. If we are going to ask God to help other people, then we must be ready and willing to be the medium through which that help comes.
February 4th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
@ Lisa: Charismatics don’t believe that you’re not saved if you don’t speak in tongues — at least the overwhelming majority do not believe and/or teach that. Instead, most would claim that you are not baptized with the Spirit or have not experienced the fullness of the Spirit. They would not question one’s salvation, however, expect in very, very extreme, fringe groups.
February 4th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life: I pray with my daughter every night. We thank God for all the people in our lives and for the fun things we’ve done that day. For myself – I tend to lose focus. I start to pray and then just get distracted as my mind wanders on my prayer topics and all of a sudden I realize that I’m thinking about my life and not at all in the prayer that I started. I go through this routine two or three times in a row, and then just “give up” as God knows my prayers more than I do. Bad, but the truth.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer: An instant link to God. Amazing. I know that he is always listening – even when I forget to pray.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like: To me, over Spiritualized prayer is any prayer that is for “show”. Whether you are showing off for other people, or if you are showing off for yourself in private. I think God knows our true hearts and he is offended when He is not our true focus. I used to go to church with this guy… When he would pray in front of the congregation he got this big booming voice, like he was trying to be God himself. All I could think about during his prayers was that he needed to get over himself and be real… He made me lose focus on God, and I think as a leader, that is where he should have been guiding me to.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like: Any time your heart is not in it. Be real. Don’t just say the words because that is what you’re supposed to do.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer: Keep it real. People who pray for show tend to annoy other Christians and turn non-Christians away from the faith.
February 4th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Writing this down makes me realize that my prayer life needs help and I need to try harder. Any suggestions on how to pray with my infant daughter so I can help her grasp the concept of true prayer?
February 4th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
@ brgulker To clarify: I didn’t mean that all charismatics believe that, just like I don’t think the one pastor was a good representation of Calvinists. But I *have* had experiences with both extremes.
February 4th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Anne Lamott claims the best two prayers she knows are “Help me, help me, help me” and “Thank you, thank you, thank you.”
People think that there prayers are just asking God for help. or wisdom. It should be thanking him. make it simple God knows your heart.
February 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
1) Its becoming more consistent.
2) That its an extra, its not necessary, its only for special times, you should only do it when you feel like it
3) Having to do it every time your small group meets
4) Not doing it when you small group meets
February 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life. My husband and I pray before dinner and at church. Other than that, my habit is usually to pray when I “need” something. I alsways make sure to CHAT (Confess, Honor, Ask, Thank) when I pray, it’s just not as often as I’d like.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer. I feel like unless they’ve seen prayer work, they are skeptical. And even then, I think people have a hard time praying because most people struggle with the having the FAITH that God is REALLY real.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like. – I think of the rosary and other Catholic prayers. It’s so structured that folks just repeat what they are told to repeat, and I think they don’t even know what they’re saying. I went to an actual rosary service for an aunt that passed away and was shocked at how fast they were “chanting” the rosary. They were basically slurring the words together and mumbling, just to get it over with.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like. Despite praying, they don’t believe the words they are saying and then when their “prayers” are answered, the equate it to circumstances, rather than God.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer. All you gotta do is start talking. It doesn’t have to be formal or written out. He’s a friend who always listens.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
I try and pray at every meal and every night before I go to sleep. I also pray when times are good or times are bad.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
I think the concept of prayer is a way that we as individuals, families, friends etc can connect with God.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
a. Praying for show and losing focus on God.
b. Seriously praying for the snow to melt and the weather to warm up.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
When I was little we use to go around the table and all say a prayer. So every day my prayer was “Dear God thank you for this food and drink, Amen”. Absolutely no thought or feeling put into this prayer. (I am sure that is why the Bible teaches us how to pray. Mathew 6)
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer. I think we need to pray to God for all things big and small but do it with heart.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Since I have been doing “The Text” in the morning I have been following it up with praying for my family and my day. I can feel the difference in my day and my attitude when I start my day out with prayer.
Sometimes I do feel inadequate because my prayers are not fancy, but they are heart felt and “real” and I think that is the difference between “over spiritualized” and “under spiritualized”. Words are worth nothing if they are just words and God knows the difference.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I suck. Sometimes my prayer life is good but then it is bad again..I feel like i let the end of the day come and go without prayer most of the time..I do like that we started index cards at Bible study writing down prayer requests for each other and talking about requests from e-mail. This is been helpful to pray for each other.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
Occasional prayers throughout the day, praying as a family at dinner, praying with my kids at night, Lord’s Prayer before bed.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
Seems to me that people tend to think you have to pray right to live right, I think it’s the other way around. One has to live right to pray right.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Praying with pride. God, I’ve done work x, y, and z. I’m not like other sinnners, I’m better then most, etc.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Praying with conditions. God, if you do x, I’ll do y. God, if I win this poker hand, I’ll believe in you more.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer.
I think prayers should be humbling and filled with thanks and awe of God.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
My best prayer times happen when I’m taking a walk. By “best” I mean they feel most like a leisurely conversation with God–I’m not trying to compose a prayer or check several items off a list, I’m just spending time with God.
Along those lines, I think I/we too often think of prayer as sentences and words–a list of specific thanks and specific requests. I’m trying to be more open about prayer this year. A big part of that for me is removing language from the idea of prayer, and trying to image prayer as just being intuitive and open to God.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
It’s like talking to my best friend, one of my parents, or anyone I trust without reserve. I don’t use fancy language that I don’t normally use. I definitely don’t use “thee” or “thou.” I don’t sit on my knees and, most of the time, I don’t even close my eyes. I talk to God, throughout my day, about . . . everything. In fact, praying out loud in front of people feels weird if it’s emotionally charged, because it’d be like having a personal conversation with my best friend over a loudspeaker. And, when I really need something – like when I could have lost my husband or my son was hospitalized – I just say the same thing over and over, “please let him be all right, please let him be all right” because it’s what I mean.
I can say anything to God, whether I’m mad, scared, hopeful, happy, whatever, and He never gets hurt feelings, never freaks out, never placates me, never stops listening and He never stops loving me or doing what is best for me. Who else would I want to talk to?
February 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life. The times I am most connected to God are the times when I pray the most. When I get out of the routine of prayer, I quickly start losing sight of God.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer. I believe prayer can take many different forms, from singing to poetry to simply talking to God. I think the prayers that are “best” are the ones where you’re really honest with God, the “methodology” so to speak isn’t as important.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like. Trying to impress yourself, God, or people around you.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like. Saying any prayer because you feel obligated or because it’s “tradition”.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer. Even though prayer can feel goofy at times it’s one of the most important things we can do to improve our spiritual lives. Without prayer we lose a very important way to stay anchored to God.
February 4th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
1) Probably one of the most frustrating struggles of my Christian life has been trying to get a regular, consistent, long enough prayer time every day. Especially since I started working I just have not been able to get into a routine that works for me. But I haven’t given up yet…
2) Prayer = communicating something directly to God. Types of prayer can be adoration, confession, thanksgiving, supplication, meditation, and just plain talking through whatever is on your mind. yes that last one is the official theological term. ;)
3) Words for words’ sake. Matthew 6:7. Impressing others. “Riding the Amens” in a prayer meeting, i.e. praying just so as many people say “Amen!” during your prayer as possible. ;)
4) Forgetting who you’re talking to. Talking to God as if he’s your “homey”.
5) Prayer is a symptom of our walk with God, but at the same time it’s the antidote for an apathetic walk with God.
February 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
I *try* to pray every day just me and the Lord. I don’t always succeed there and I try not to beat myself up for missing time with the Lord. I usually lead morning and/or evening prayer at our family altar where we pray for our days and for those around us in need of prayer.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
One of my Bishops quoted someone else in this regard a year or so ago and said: “Prayer is simple. Close your eyes. Tell God the truth.” I resonated with that ever since.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
A legalistic and arduous task of deep bowing and kneeling with the whole idea that this is “work.”
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
No need to stop and have time with the Lord in prayer — He is omniscient and I am one with the Lord — He already knows everything in my heart! I’m golden!
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer.
“A concentrated mind and a sitting body make for better prayer than a kneeling body and a mind half asleep.” (C.S. Lewis, “Letters to Malcolm: Chiefly on Prayer”)
February 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
OK, more by Lewis from “Letters to Malcolm: Chiefly on Prayer”
“If our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart.” And equally, if our heart flatter us, God is greater than our heart. I sometimes pray not for self-knowledge in general but for just so much self-knowledge at the moment as I can bear and use at the moment; the little daily dose.”
“What seem our worst prayers may really be, in God’s eyes, our best. Those, I mean, which are least supported by devotional feeling. For these may come from a deeper level than feeling. God sometimes seems to speak to us most intimately when he catches us, as it were, off our guard.”
February 4th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
I think prayer can change three areas – ourselves, the ones we pray for, and even, as scripture gives example of, God’s mind.
My prayer life is, I think unfortunately, quantity and not quality. I pray all day long, but never with the depth that I see in scripture. That’s what I long for but my prayer life seems to be an echo of our culture. bulleted for convenience, short and “dumbed down”.
One neat thing that our family used to do was keep a prayer journal “for the kids”. We’d write down prayer requests and then, later, write down any answers or changes we saw. Man! On paper, it’s pretty sweet to see, umm, “for the kids” of course. :)
February 4th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
1) Tell me about your prayer life.
It really does vary. With being in highschool and having lots of stresses from school my prayer life is kind of like a rollercoaster.
2) Tell me what you or others think about the concept of prayer.
I think it’s just praying to God about anything. It’s about thanking Him for all He has given you and telling Him when you’re upset. It’s about asking Him to constantly help you become a better Christian.
3) Tell me what you think Over Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Trying to be all loud for the attention. Acting crazy, for attention. I think it’s when anybody does anything just to make themselves look better and such.
4) Tell me what you think Under-Spiritualized Prayer may look like.
Not really being connected. It’s like attending church, but not being there spiritually. I think that’s the same case with prayer. Or like me, I go to a morning prayer group at school once a week. It would be like someone coming to that but not really being there when we were praying.
5) Give me any other thoughts you may have on prayer.
I like how it can be a bit silly when you pray. Like, as if a little kid was super excited and was just all over the place. I think it’s awesome how we can even be completely out of words to say, yet God still understands what you’re trying to say. Prayer is definitely part of being Christian (well duh, we all know that, lol), but I think it’s more of a necessity to communicate with God successfully.
February 4th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
and remember that acronym ACTS from sunday school? adoration, confession, thanksgiving and supplication. gotta admit, i still pull that out on rare occasions.
February 4th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Typing takes too long, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gElYSCPXEGE
February 5th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
When I was in Viet Nam I would repent and ask forgiveness before each flight. I also prayed that my crew would not be hurt. Sometimes as the tracers came at my helicopter I would pray again and the bullets would came inside the helicopter and trough the windshield and into my knee. we would lose our engine and I would land. Nobody on any of my ships were hurt and I survived. During hard time in my life I prayed for comfort and received it even though I caused some of the trouble. God was faithful and eased my hurt. When I went trough terrible PTSD problems several years ago I prayed that God would take the pain away and comfort me. He did not. Why?? Cause he wanted me to get help and do away with the problems. I did and now I am healed. If he would have just comforted me I still would have the problems underneath. So He did not answer my prayers, but made sure I was healed. I believe that there is a reason that sometimes our prayers are not answered as we would like and we turn out better for it.
February 5th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Noel, I look forward to your sermon.
I think it would be a good idea to address the issue of unanswered prayer, specifically the hard stuff: couples who would be wonderful parents but unable to have children; people who would make terrific spouses yet remain single; not being healed from serious chronic health problems. Unfortunately, Christ-followers all too often offer nothing but insensitive, unhelpful pat phrases to those in situations like these. I’d love unanswered prayer to be addressed in an intelligent and compassionate manner as part of your sermon.
February 5th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Over-spiritualized prayer is intimidating and frustrating. It’s full of big “spiritual” words and lots of hand motions and it becomes more of a public speech than a convo with Jesus. Over-doing prayer basically looks like you, talking to yourself. Jesus isn’t present. And to be honest, whoever prays like that probably didn’t really expect Jesus to show up and listen to him anyway. He just likes the sound of his own voice. Too harsh? (sorry–this is a touchy subject for me)
John Piper (is the man!) and says that “prayer is a war-time walkie-talkie, NOT a domestic intercom.” Right on, John. Right on.
See you Saturday, Noel. :)
February 6th, 2009 at 1:29 am
i don’t have a great answer for any of these really but i wrote a blog on some recent thoughts i had on prayer. if you’re interested here’s the link:
http://dougmains.blogspot.com/2009/01/sleeping-like-im-not-and-praying-like.html
oh i can answer number 1…i am a very A.D.D. prayer. so i’ve started to enter a time of prayer with first of all, praying for focus and then thanking Him for my blessings. i try not to keep it focused more on Him than me. when i focus on me i start to daydream…then forget what i was doing in the first place.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:30 am
i don’t have a great answer for any of these really but i wrote a blog on some recent thoughts i had on prayer. if you’re interested here’s the link:
http://dougmains.blogspot.com/2009/01/sleeping-like-im-not-and-praying-like.html
oh i can answer number 1…i am a very A.D.D. prayer. so i’ve started to enter a time of prayer with first of all, praying for focus and then thanking Him for my blessings. i try to keep it focused more on Him than me. when i focus on me i start to daydream…then forget what i was doing in the first place.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:33 am
ah i crapped it up. the first one says that “I try not to keep it focused more on him than me.” while it was uploading i stopped it to fix it. the second one says, “i try to keep it focused more on Him than me.” ah. sorry for all these comments.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
My first prayer of the day, is on my drive in to work. I turn the radio off, and pray, sometimes out loud. When I pray, I talk to God as I talk to my dad, I am able to lay it all out instead of being guarded. He is my God, but He is also my friend.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Prayer should be continual through ones’ life. Continual: Always happening.