Food and Conscience
May 19, 2008 Uncategorized
I must be a prophet.
A year or so ago, I was teaching at Riv on “Brotherly Love.” You can watch the whole message here. Specifically, I was teaching on what to do when you disagree with another Christ-follower on an “open handed issue,” which is a non-sin issue that people have differing convictions on.
Here is a 1.5 minute excerpt where I predict what may be coming for the church in America:
Well, I was right–this issue hit Riv last week. Sunday, we had a fund-raiser for our outreach in Mexico. As part of the event, we roasted a couple pigs. All in all it was an amazing event, with lots of support raised to help out orphans in need.
The week before the event, a member of our church, who is either vegan or vegetarian (I’m not sure) was concerned about us roasting pigs. She felt it would be better to have a vegetarian event. Suffice it to say, it snowballed to the point that PETA got involved. They sent us a letter and even placed a PSA on a local radio station asking us to have a vegetarian event instead. It was all very fascinating to say the least.
The best part of the whole thing was the example JR (the guy overseeing our Mexico stuff) set. He could have gotten into a big scriptural debate with the Riv member, but he didn’t. He could have ignored the whole thing, but he didn’t. Instead, he responded very graciously to her concerns. Here’s the note he sent:
Thanks for your email concerning the fiesta next Sunday. I really appreciate you sharing your conscience and convictions with us about the pigs and using them to feed people at the party.
While I completely agree with your statements about all animals being God’s creation, I don’t necessarily share your convictions about eating them. I certainly want to respect and honor your conscience and convictions in an area such as this even though I would suggest this is not a black and white or wrong and right “sin” issue.
That is probably one of the things that I love most about Riverview. We live by the principle that we obey and submit ourselves to the things that are clear in the Scriptures as sin. After that, we follow the laws and authorities we’ve been placed under by God. Finally, we yield to our conscience and convictions concerning the things that the Bible is silent on! Living by this principle together is a reflection of what Biblical community is all about.
Again, thanks so much for your willingness to have open dialogue and remain in community with one another - even when we disagree about things.
Great job representing Jesus well, JR. So glad to have you on our team.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:12 am
JR is my Hero!
Noel…I am so bummed…I put the event on my calendar…what happened? grumble grumble…glad you all had a great time grumbl…grumble…
May 19th, 2008 at 10:36 am
By placing a video of yourself speaking, you’re essentially quoting yourself, huh? It would have been more amusing for you to place a video of you doing the “I was right dance” on your blog.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I attend RiverView during the school year and have always loved the way they address what is and what is not sin, just as JR described in that quote.
A little over a month ago, I decided to stop eating meat. For some time, I had been thinking about the way that we’re treating God’s creation. I believe that He means for us to eat animals, but I also believe that He means for us to treat them humanely. The way in which animals were killed during the writing of the Bible and the way in which they are slaughtered now are drastically different. In those times, animals were seen as a gift from God and were prayed over before slaughter and we slaughtered in the way God commanded. Now, these creations of God are treated as if they were a creation of our own that we are to do with as we please. This wasn’t what God had in mind.
That being said, I understand that not all Christians are going to have these convictions. I don’t feel it is my job to judge other Christians for eating meat or view them as any less obedient. This is an issue with a lot of gray area today. But I do think that Christians should address the mistreatment of animals. When God created Adam, He proclaimed that it was man’s job to rule over the animals of the earth. (Genesis 1:26-28) I believe He wants us to rule over them with the same compassion in which He rules over us.
About 3 years ago, I went to an anti-PETA demonstration in which we barbecued and wore leather shoes, etc. How ironic that God would change my views so much.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
People for the
Edible
Treatment of
Animals
Okay I know a little tacky but I saw it on a bumpers sticker on someone’s car after I read this entry and had to run to the bank.
How did the fund raiser go?
May 19th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Well over a grand, which is really cool.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
kim has a great post on this over on her blog…
http://phoenix3rising.blogspot.com/2008/05/peta-fall-out.html
May 19th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I wish common sense was common…
May 19th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I think I should make it clear that while I do not eat meat, I do not support PETA. I think it is a terrorist organization that forces their beliefs on others. I absolutely do not think an animal’s life is equal to a human’s.
While I’m not eating meat, I do not call myself a vegetarian. This is something I’m just not sure about at this time, and I’m praying that God will make my convictions clear. So in the mean time, I’m abstaining from meat consumption.
May 20th, 2008 at 3:43 am
i love to hunt. veggies do not make for good hunting.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
PETA people are mean. i sure hope they dont find out about my party. we are eating all sorts of dead animal..yummy!!!
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:04 am
I am traveling to Monterrey with the mission trips this year. It was really disheartening that PETA would try to thwart our efforts. We are working to better the lives of HUMANS. Not that I think we should disrespect animal life, but I think there is a BIG difference between the two. However, if they would have showed up on that COLD day, I would have done the Christian thing and offered them a nice warm cup of coffee, with creamer from an exploited cow
Sorry, couldn’t help myself.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:15 am
I think I saw this coming, as I frequent a Christian vegetarian message board and someone came on there asking for advice about what to do about the pig roast, feeling very sad about the whole thing. I am under the impression that the person contacted PETA for help before she came to the message board. The other Christian vegetarians counseled her to keep the peace, and she agreed that it would be best. But since PETA was already notified there wasn’t much she could do.
I wasn’t there, as I am a vegetarian myself and could not bring myself to come to the event. So I don’t really know what went on. I apologize if the PETA reps were too inflamatory.
I do have to say, though, that as a vegetarian, it makes me sad when church events like this come up that I can’t participate in without also contributing money towards something I feel strongly against (buying pigs for food). Hpwever, I appreciate the significance of the Mexico trip and like that I was allowed the chance to be involved in the other Mexico trip fundraisers in ways that don’t violate my principles.
Thank you for responding with compassion.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:34 am
Oh, also I just wanted to say that I was at the service you posted a clip from. Was it really a year ago? My boyfriend and I had just gotten into a fight where he was being extremely critical of my vegetarianism, basically telling me that since the Bible didn’t say explicitly eating meat was a sin that I was being sinful by NOT eating it.
After he heard what you said that day he has apologized and backed down on the issue. I appreciate the relief.
On another note, I was rereading the thread on the Christian Vegetarian message board, and I think the woman who contacted the church felt more threatened than anything.
Are you sure she understood the point that JR was trying to convey in his note?
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 am
Hey and by the way, the pigs were donated by a local farmer, money raised through the event didn’t go towards buying meat.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Dan, I appreciate the information, although to be honest that really wouldn’t have changed my mind about attending at all.
To me roasting pigs is on the same level as roasting a dog. I recognize that in this culture I’m in the minority with that opinion, so I have learned to temper my reactions to such things when I talk to people. It’s just that those things are still unbearable for me to watch sometimes.
Also, I just read some of the other comments here more carefully. I’m sad that in some of the comments here people couldn’t talk about vegetarianism is a respectful manner. There’s plenty of people who are vegetarian without joining PETA of leafleting church events. It’s not right to lump us all together and make personal jabs.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Mmmm… as much as I am a pig for pig I know that the facts of pork are inarguably less than the healthiest product for this battered temple of God. To tell you the truth I’d like to go on about inhuman slaughter and drastic changes in farming… but Noel, back to the Razor deal: I hope you include a bit on perspective and drastic differences in culture and science; maybe exactly where you draw your —or recommend one to draw their own— line in conscience verse commandment; I’ve previously listened to that teaching. I’m thinking you’ve mentioned another time the mosaic law as a inseparable whole but maybe you could go into more on whether Pauline Biblical text delvers Christ’s law as commandment and/or personal morality. Galatians 3 shows your point of law pointing to Jesus but also ends with equality of title, race and gender; yet many feel Pauline bits and mosaic accounts separate us even in Christ (of course nowhere does it include non-humans). Then there’s me, some would think its a greater sin that I might hand out PETA leaflets at a Christian event while eating a bacon cheeseburger in a suede shirt, but I’m pro-information. Now I’m hungry but I really do hope you get into some of those theological misnomers and specifics where you and others have drawn “sin-issue” conclusions. How’s the book coming?
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Lauren,
I think that’s very true, a lot of people are pretty insensitive to the convictions of others and I think that is a pretty unloving way to live.
Sorry you feel lumped into the “PETA” groups sometimes, there’s a big difference of feeling convicted to live a certain way and of joining a group like PETA. I think your comments have proven that you are thinking through the issue in a loving way.
Also, this probably should have been announced, but the pigs weren’t even roasted at the event. There was just pork served. It’s just like an event that included pepperoni pizza.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Yeah, I wish I had known that. I heard “pig roast” and pictured whole pigs being cooked on the spot.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Lauren,
I want to apologize for the “creamer” comment. You are right, it isn’t right to lump all vegetarians in the same category or to disrespect their choices. I used to be veg myself. Again, I am sorry if it offended you.